So I'm guessing it's a quality or quantity argument at this point. I need to invest 6 more points in Raise Skeleton for two more Skeletons. Am I better off making my current skeletons tougher, or should I proceed with Raise skeleton (as I believe both skills with increase the damage)? Looking forward to future gear options, by level 42, I'll have a total of +9 to my summoning skills, so I'd still have a 3:1 ratio with Raise Skeleton and Skeleton Mastery (at that point it would be 29 RS vs. 10 in Mastery). Suggestions?|||IIRC raise skeleton increases the actual damage but skeleton mastery increases the damage %? If that's right then I'd look to make skeles a hard 15, with 1 in mastery from the go, before bringing up mastery. That's just my opinion, as you say there's a lot of divide over this
By level 42 you should have nearly maxed both of the skills, presuming you do the skill quests for normal...(41 points + 4 quest points - 10 for other skills (up to revive, CE and ampdam) = 35 which is almost enough for a max in both).
But that's besides the point, personally I'd say RS is more important than skeleton mastery early on, I usually take RS up to 14/15 before investing in SM past 1 point.|||I usually don't follow what guides say to do, but in this case, I'd stick with what Nightfish suggests.|||Raise Skeleton always beats out Skeleton Mastery in terms of overall DPS.
Play around with this. Every time you get a new Skeletal Warrior, your dps spikes a bit.|||Contrary to popular opinion, there are only slight differences between the two.
If you go 3 hard points in RS and then max the Mastery, you'll have 3 or 4 super skeletons. Each individual skeleton will deal more damage and have way more HP than if you maxed RS first. On top of that, they'll cost less mana.
If you go 1 hard point in SM and then max RS, you'll have a lot of weenie skeletons. Each individual skeleton is weaker, but the overall damage is somewhat higher than the super skeletons, and the total HP is slightly more, but the group is more vulnerable to AoE attacks.
I prefer the super skeleton route myself. Diablo has a bad habit of nuking my skeleton army to death, and if you don't have enough +skills to raise SM and SR up to decent levels then you're going to quickly find yourself out of cannon fodder. In your case, you're probably OK to continue raising skeletons.|||Well, I did some more research on my own, and the conclusion I've drawn is that after that initial point, especially if you have some +skills gear on your developing necro, you're better off investing in Raise Skeleton over the mastery.
According to the skill calculator I was using (sorry omg - you posted while I was typing), skeletons summoned at level 1-3 have identical stats: They all have 21 life, and they all do 1-2 damage (on normal difficulty).
Starting at level 4 and onward, all skeltons receive the following bonuses for a point in Raise Skeleton:
+15 AR/level
+15 defense/level
+10.5 life/level (the skill calculator shows the skeletons life alternating between +10 and +11 for each additional level)
+ variable damage gained per level, with more points leading to bigger damage increases.
I'll explain that last point in a little more detail. With the early levels of RS, adding a point will only raise the skeletons min and max damage by a single point. But additional points yeild bigger returns on damage. By the time you get to level 20, a point adds +6 to both the min and max damage.
The Mastery, by contrast, is completely linear. Each an every point give +2 to min and max damage, and +8 to the life of your skellies. So that first point in the Mastery is important, especially if you have +skill gear, as the initial return for a point spent in the mastery is greater than the intial return on a point in RS. However, once you hit level 4, you get more life per skeleton by investing in RS, and once you hit level 8, you get more damage per level by investing in RS (and the same +2 to min and max damage for levels 5-7 of RS).
A couple of caveats to the above points:
1.) The damage return on the Mastery seems appreciably better on Skeletal Mages than their warrior counterparts, so if for some reason you like to develop Mages before the regular skeletons, the Mastery may be of more use.
2.) Skeleton Mastery gives a very nice +5% life/level and +10% damage/level bonus to Revives. So if you are a big fan of Revives, the Mastery may also be of more use to you.
I, however, rely much more heavily on regular skeletons than I do any other summons, and I think that's probably true of most summoners. I never develop my mages until after I have my skeletons maxed out, and for me, Revives are supplemental summons. I just don't have the patience to be constantly summoning more revives, especailly in areas where good revives are not available. Sure, for Act bosses, and fights with Izual, Hephasto, et al., I'll gladly grab a few revivies to assist in the beat-down, but Revives do not contribute significantly to my summons while doing normal questing.|||I usually spend 4-5 in raise skeleton per point in skeleton mastery.
Then when RS is done, I finish RSM.|||Its hard to beat having 9-10 roided up skeletons by act 2. Mastery just cant keep up.
Though interestinly even putting 2 points into mastery yields skeletons with 60% more life than 0 mastery ones(at level 20 char, 20 points to spend) though dps is smaller.|||Quote:
Its hard to beat having 9-10 roided up skeletons by act 2. Mastery just cant keep up.
Though interestinly even putting 2 points into mastery yields skeletons with 60% more life than 0 mastery ones(at level 20 char, 20 points to spend) though dps is smaller.
Yes, the dps goes down slightly the more you put into Mastery, but not by a lot. You also have to consider the fact that a bunch of flimsy skeletons will get blown away by Diablo before they can do any damage.
All in all it doesn't really matter. Here's how your first 40ish levels break down:
Level 1: Amplify Damage
Level 2-5: 3 Raise Skeleton, 1 Skeleton Mastery
Level 6: Clay Golem
Level 7-23: Everything into skeletons and mastery
Level 24: Use a head/wand combo that gives you Decrepify and Summon Resist, put your level point into skeletons or mastery
Level 25-40: Everything into skeletons and mastery
If you kinda, sorta, almost follow that guide, it's easymode.|||i'm playing a summoning necro for the umpteenth time and it's always the same. they are very easy to play except for the maggot lair. it just takes along time to kill thru there. but what most people don't realize is the game gives out very good exp just playing alone. i'm usually level 24 by the time i hit act 4. which is good because you will have collected 23 skill points from leveling and have gotten 2 free points. and by the time you get to diablo, you will have earned 2 more from izual and maybe have gotten to level 25.
so here is my skill point allocation by the time i hit act 4.
1 in amp damage, 1 skeleton mastery, 1 in clay golem, 1 in summon resist and i will have raise skeleton maxed out. from then on till maxed, it's skeleton mastery. you don't need attract, decrep or CE until NM. you don't need revives until hell. as you collect added skill points from equipment, all your 1 pointers will go up. i just hit 80 and i have RS, SM and CE maxed and 20 points also counting added skill points from equipment to revives and 1 point into bone armor with the rest of my points going into bone wall. not for the bone wall skill, but to raise bone armor. bone armor adds 10 points where as bone wall addes 15.
now as far as killing diablo for the first time in norm, which is the hardest cause of how weak you could be. the 1 point into summon resist really helps. but here is alittle trick you can do to keep them alive longer. spam your clay golem right on top of diablo. if you watch closely. as soon as you summon him, he dies, right? well, that's what you want. you want diablo to focus on your clay golem while your skellies and merc kills him. just make sure you spam him away from everyone to keep the damage down. from then on it's a cake walk. i just hit 80 last night and my merc is my level. i just got better equipment for him from a trade. but as of level 79, he was still wearing a 300 def piece of crap rare armor with a low level partizon insight. and remember, your skellies scale with NM and hell for damage and life. and if your wondering if i use mages at all? hell no. unless they are in an open area like outside and they are from my revives. your setup is for amp damage which is physical damage. if you use your own mages by chance, use the poison ones. not for their good damage but to offset the regen of the mobs health. have fun
quick mention about revives, they are as dumb as a bag of rocks and move slow. it's your moving fast that makes them disappear. so be prepared to make them every battle. if you are rich and have access to an enigma, use it for the tele to keep your revives with you. if you are not rich, look for Naj;s staff, it has a level 11 teleport on it. there is also a unique beared axe with teleport on it. keep either on your weapon swap to teleport. but remember this, it is very exspensive to repair those. i got lucky and found a very nice necro ammy with teleport on it and it costs me 12k to repair 1 teleport. i was down to 10 left out of 22 and it cost me 42k to repair it. but it's a nice neck piece. +2 curses, mana, 16 all resists and teleport. bling hehe
one last thing about teleport and i'm done. i came back 3 times to edit. hehe. i've played a necro for along time and i just discovered this the other day. you know if you attack a boss with your merc and minions. not all will be doing damage. some will stay around the outside perimeter and just stand there. and if you teleport some place, they all stand on top of you until you move. then they all fan out. so i teleported the other day ontop of baal and quickly moved, but my minions didn't fan out like they normally do. since i teleported ontop of baal, they all stood there on top of each other and attacked baal like the ghosts stack up in the tombs. i could not believe how fast i killed baal with all my minions and merc stacked up on each other. if you havn't tried that yet. do it.
ok, i lied, i wasn't done. hopefully 1 last thing i need to explain. since you weren't sure about your skellies and masteries. you might not know about attract. it only hits one mob, added skill points just increases it's duration. you can cast on more than one but will only hit one at a time and no other curse will over ride it. this skill is one of the best that most might not use all to often. i use it alot. think of a tight enclosed area. like the halls in the tombs infront of a door. you open the door, there are mobs standing there and so are your skellies. no one can come in or go out. cast attract at one of the first mobs in the door. all the other mobs that can reach it will attack it to help your skellies kill it faster. cast another on a back mob to attract any other mob in the back of the room. by the time they reach the attracted mob, you might have one killed to let you use CE. so your casting might look like this. open door, cast amp dam on the mobs, cast attract on one in the front and one in the back, then start spamming CE until one dies and your CE goes off. if nothing is dead yet, spamming CE will not cost you any mana until a mob is dead. but then they will all die. another time to use it is when you get overwhelmed by alot of mobs at once. like in the hell pits. start spamming attract on the mobs to draw attention away from you giving you time to cast amp dam and get your skellies in there to fight. if you want to see how good this skill works. go to a cows game and cast attract on one cow, then stand there. hehe you will have cows coming out from everywhere. the only thing that will stop any mob is an obsticle. they will not go around anything to get to you. ok, i don't care what i forgot. i am done. i am not gunna reply anymore. hopefully arg
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